Tuesday, August 30, 2005
It's The Vibe!
Don Brash has sudenly become an expert in the meaning and significance of the treaty which must be just delightful for him and the jump on a racist bandwagon followers he's shooting for.
I feel like saying that the meaning of the treaty is really all about the vibe, but suspect I'd get a similar response to that which they got in The Castle film. You know tha Aussie one about the family living next to the airport.
anyway...
In case you only read article three Don, allow me to point you to article two where Maori are guaranteed full or entire chieftainship over their lands. Remember folks, that's THEIR lands. Also remember that somebody stole dose der lands and chased them injuns into dem der hills. And Imagine if I was granted full or entire cheiftainship over my own land! Fuck council zoning laws!!! I'm building a Casino under the house!!!! But alas, I didn't sign the treaty.
Cos' you know. When you fall off that ladder putting up the National Party billboard and wind up wasting my tax payers money in hospital, I'll let you off. Nevermind that you as a cripple now have acess to money that I don't. Where's the "one New Zealander", "every New Zealander treated equally" now fucker?!
Who fucking cares how long it takes?
Your average Joe Blogs doesn't know if there have been 3 cases settled or 23 settled and probably even less of an idea how many are still to be settled or what they involve.
I feel like saying that the meaning of the treaty is really all about the vibe, but suspect I'd get a similar response to that which they got in The Castle film. You know tha Aussie one about the family living next to the airport.
anyway...
Treaty doesn't mean partnership, says BrashLike it or not mate, they were separate at the time and in order to survive culturally they will need to remain separate in many ways today. They signed the treaty so that they would have protection and rights but it was protection of their culture and rights to guarantee they could maintain their culture. Not protection from other Maori fullas and rights to act like white fullas. The Queen agreed to protect Maori people and I fail to see how subsuming them into the larger culture is protecting them. It opens the way for a massive amount of compensation further down the track if Maori people and Maori culture are harmed in anyway.
30.08.05 1.00pm
The Treaty of Waitangi does not create a partnership with a separate people, National's leader Don Brash said today.
Dr Brash has returned to race relations as a key issue for his party as the election approaches, and yesterday gave a speech in Whangarei similar to the one he delivered in Orewa early last year.Well, you may as well go for the bigot vote that you may have missed last time I suppose.
The Orewa speech gave National a big boost in the polls, and Dr Brash is hoping he can create that impact again.
He is now being accused of running a negative agenda and wanting to knock back Maori, but Dr Brash denied that today.I'm sorry? Every what? I don't think Maori were "New Zealanders" at the time of the signing, nor knew anything about the place.
He said the treaty was a fundamental document that said every New Zealander had to be treated equally.
Dr Brash said he based his case on article three of the treaty, which said every New Zealander had the rights and privileges of British subjects.
"I do not think it creates a partnership. I do not think it creates a separate people with whom the Crown has to negotiate stuff," he said on National Radio.No Don, it is TOTALLY CLEAR from the treaty that Maori DO (that's DO with big fucken letters) have different rights from others.
"Every New Zealander has a right to be consulted when their rights are affected, but it's totally unclear from the treaty whether Maori have different rights from others."
In case you only read article three Don, allow me to point you to article two where Maori are guaranteed full or entire chieftainship over their lands. Remember folks, that's THEIR lands. Also remember that somebody stole dose der lands and chased them injuns into dem der hills. And Imagine if I was granted full or entire cheiftainship over my own land! Fuck council zoning laws!!! I'm building a Casino under the house!!!! But alas, I didn't sign the treaty.
Dr Brash's interpretation of the treaty, and National's bottom-line policy to abolish the Maori seats in Parliament, has ruled out any post-election deal with the Maori Party.Good to see Nationals plans will bring both sides together so beautifully.
Maori Party candidate Hone Harawira yesterday likened National's policies with those of Hitler.
"Hitler had plans for Jews. Pauline Hanson had similar plans for the Aboriginal people of Australia. Don Brash wants Maori to be subsumed within the larger culture of this country and to become 'one people'," he said.
Maori Party co-leader Tariana Turia said Dr Brash's speech was the last straw.
"Our people have just become sick to death of this whole Maori-bashing attitude from Dr Brash," she said.
"His further foray against the treaty has just triggered a huge amount of resentment, and we've been asked not to even consider supporting them.
"That's exactly what we're going to do. We will actively work against them."
Dr Brash today reiterated National's determination to settle all treaty claims by 2010, a target Labour says is impossible.You'll probably need to commit about ten times more than "whatever it takes" to even get near 2010. It ain't going to happen so take your empty promises and place them gently up your rectum where they belong. Or you could just ram them there real hard!
"I'm prepared to commit whatever it takes to get this process finished," Dr Brash said.
"The interminable delay in settling treaty grievances is intolerable for New Zealanders".Well for some voters it is. But I couldn't give a fuck when it ends. The money being dished out is a pittance in the overall scheme of things and much of it is being put to very good use.
Cos' you know. When you fall off that ladder putting up the National Party billboard and wind up wasting my tax payers money in hospital, I'll let you off. Nevermind that you as a cripple now have acess to money that I don't. Where's the "one New Zealander", "every New Zealander treated equally" now fucker?!
Labour's Race Relations Minister, Trevor Mallard, says Maori are getting ahead under government policies and are contributing to New Zealand economically and socially.Thanks Trev. You tell the Fourth Reich.
"National just wants to knock them back."
Who fucking cares how long it takes?
Your average Joe Blogs doesn't know if there have been 3 cases settled or 23 settled and probably even less of an idea how many are still to be settled or what they involve.
Comments:
Interesting to see you seem to gloss over the fact that Don Brash is being equated with Hitler. In fact you make refernce to the "Fourth Reich."
You talk about money being put to good use, so the purchase of the Warriors was good use of the money?
I also fail to see how Don Brash will cause Maori to suddenly be subsumed into the larger culture, is he planning to ban maraes, the Maori language, stop the All Blacks performing the haka? No, he is not.
Explain to me why it is necessary to Maori seats in parliament. It is not as if there are no Maori MPs on the general role. What is the rationale for this in 2005?
-Dinkas
You talk about money being put to good use, so the purchase of the Warriors was good use of the money?
I also fail to see how Don Brash will cause Maori to suddenly be subsumed into the larger culture, is he planning to ban maraes, the Maori language, stop the All Blacks performing the haka? No, he is not.
Explain to me why it is necessary to Maori seats in parliament. It is not as if there are no Maori MPs on the general role. What is the rationale for this in 2005?
-Dinkas
# posted by 
: 30 August 2005 at 21:34
: 30 August 2005 at 21:34
Dinkas:
1/ The relevant distinction here is between public and private. Brash wouldn't (and probably couldn't) directly restrict private expressions/exercise of Maori culture. (Well, in the absence of a proper constitution he could actually). But he would restrict the recognition and exercise of that culture in public (governmental) contexts, and this could have significant flow-on effects.
2/ Maori can do what they like with their settlement money. The Warriors may or may not have looked like a solid investment. Probably better than a Marsden Pt style development a la the National Party for which Don Brash stood twice in the early 1980s. :-0
3/ Yamis didn't talk about the Maori seats, and they're not directly related to ToW, but I think you're completely right. There is no justification for them as far as I can tell. None. They are an historical artefact that should be gone by breakfast.
1/ The relevant distinction here is between public and private. Brash wouldn't (and probably couldn't) directly restrict private expressions/exercise of Maori culture. (Well, in the absence of a proper constitution he could actually). But he would restrict the recognition and exercise of that culture in public (governmental) contexts, and this could have significant flow-on effects.
2/ Maori can do what they like with their settlement money. The Warriors may or may not have looked like a solid investment. Probably better than a Marsden Pt style development a la the National Party for which Don Brash stood twice in the early 1980s. :-0
3/ Yamis didn't talk about the Maori seats, and they're not directly related to ToW, but I think you're completely right. There is no justification for them as far as I can tell. None. They are an historical artefact that should be gone by breakfast.
The Warriors debacle was a minor blunder compared to some of the stuffups carried out by Don's real separate and specially privileged people, the Business Roundtable.
Enhancing the special status of this avaricious cabal by attempting subvert democracy is the real agenda here. No state asset sales? Hogwash.
Anyway, unless Helen is abducted by aliens in the next three weeks, Brash is dogtucker.
Enhancing the special status of this avaricious cabal by attempting subvert democracy is the real agenda here. No state asset sales? Hogwash.
Anyway, unless Helen is abducted by aliens in the next three weeks, Brash is dogtucker.
# posted by : 31 August 2005 at 09:27
: 31 August 2005 at 09:27
First person to make Hitler comparison = person who has lost the argument if you ask me. Sure Brash is full of shit but so is this sort of equating.
# posted by : 31 August 2005 at 10:41
: 31 August 2005 at 10:41
Dinkas, the fourth reich comment was taking the piss after the Hitler comparison.
I said much of the money is being put to good use. Not every cent. I think you are being pedantic and/or desperate, reaching for that. The media doesn't talk much on how well many iwi have managed their money since their settlements were complete.
Doesn't make good 'Maori news' though I suppose.
And you don't think that the raft of changes National are planning will negatively impact Maori and have huge long term effects? Get real.
Fortunately we will get Labour governments at stages in the future to try and undo the damage that National will wreak on anybody that doesn't fit in with it's unvisionary, backward, retarded outlook on life.
I'm surprised you seriously support this type of shit.
I said much of the money is being put to good use. Not every cent. I think you are being pedantic and/or desperate, reaching for that. The media doesn't talk much on how well many iwi have managed their money since their settlements were complete.
Doesn't make good 'Maori news' though I suppose.
And you don't think that the raft of changes National are planning will negatively impact Maori and have huge long term effects? Get real.
Fortunately we will get Labour governments at stages in the future to try and undo the damage that National will wreak on anybody that doesn't fit in with it's unvisionary, backward, retarded outlook on life.
I'm surprised you seriously support this type of shit.
I am not certainly denying that Maori have been treated badly in the past. I just fail to see how having TPK and other associated entities are actually helping anyone. Having dealt with TPK on a work basis before, they are about as competent as NZIS in my eyes.
Let's look at what Brash is planning
* Make membership of the Waitanagi Tribunal a full-time, not part-time, job so hearings can be acclerated
__
Not much really, just sounds good from the idea of making things progress
* Increase capacity of the Office of Treaty Settlements
-----
Again not much really.
* Appointing a number of specialist direct negotiators to work with claimant groups
___
Perhaps, it is just my pereception (and I can't be arsed looking for stats as I have class in 10 minutes), but I certainly remember the National govt between 90-96 settling a number of claims, but not so many by the present Labour government. Again, right the historical wrongs, settle the claims and try to move on.
* Removal of references to the "Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi" from 39 statutes with priority being the RMA and the Local Government Electoral Act
_________
I suggest you go and read some Court of Appeal cases to see that no one really understands what the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi means. This will not turn the clock back.
* Review the five specialist Maori agencies
______________
Again, I feel they exist to justify their own existence.
I'll admit there is not much substance to Brash is actually changing. I actually don't expect things to change that much (see below)
DC: But as soon as Brash starts talking about the idea of abolishing the Maori seats, he is called racist and Hitler. Now, don't get me started on the Maori party and Huata. Talk about a one issue party.
Yamis: If it was 30 years, I would have some concerns about what Brash is planning. But given today's society and what Brash has actually said he will do, I don't see Brash being a Hitler.
I know anedoctal examples don't help that much, but I grew up in Brisbane and had some very good Maori friends when I was younger. Brisbane was certainly better than the rest of Queensland, but back then it was hardly the melting pot of cultures. However, the 3-4 Maori families I knew were quite successful. I would say the average Australian has a much better opinion of Maori than what they do of an Aborogine. I think Maori have generally succeeded quite well in Australia and one reason (I am sure there are others as well) I put this down to is they don't have to worry about all this historical baggage.
By not treating Maori as equals and somehow elevating their status or providing them with special rights causes resentement in society. I don't this helps anyone.
Let me pose an example, if you have 2 candidates for a job and all you knew about them was both of them had been awarded scholarships to study at university and one of them was Maori who was awarded a scholarship only for Maoris, do you think that you will feel (at least subconciously that) he got the scholarship because he is Maori and not on merit. I think then it causes people to devalue some Maori achievement in society as because people think it is not based on merit. The sooner this is rectified the better. I think Brash's policies (at first glance) seem to go towards achieving that more than what Labour is presently offering.
-Dinkas
P.S Apologies for the incoherent ramble, but I am in a rush
Let's look at what Brash is planning
* Make membership of the Waitanagi Tribunal a full-time, not part-time, job so hearings can be acclerated
__
Not much really, just sounds good from the idea of making things progress
* Increase capacity of the Office of Treaty Settlements
-----
Again not much really.
* Appointing a number of specialist direct negotiators to work with claimant groups
___
Perhaps, it is just my pereception (and I can't be arsed looking for stats as I have class in 10 minutes), but I certainly remember the National govt between 90-96 settling a number of claims, but not so many by the present Labour government. Again, right the historical wrongs, settle the claims and try to move on.
* Removal of references to the "Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi" from 39 statutes with priority being the RMA and the Local Government Electoral Act
_________
I suggest you go and read some Court of Appeal cases to see that no one really understands what the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi means. This will not turn the clock back.
* Review the five specialist Maori agencies
______________
Again, I feel they exist to justify their own existence.
I'll admit there is not much substance to Brash is actually changing. I actually don't expect things to change that much (see below)
DC: But as soon as Brash starts talking about the idea of abolishing the Maori seats, he is called racist and Hitler. Now, don't get me started on the Maori party and Huata. Talk about a one issue party.
Yamis: If it was 30 years, I would have some concerns about what Brash is planning. But given today's society and what Brash has actually said he will do, I don't see Brash being a Hitler.
I know anedoctal examples don't help that much, but I grew up in Brisbane and had some very good Maori friends when I was younger. Brisbane was certainly better than the rest of Queensland, but back then it was hardly the melting pot of cultures. However, the 3-4 Maori families I knew were quite successful. I would say the average Australian has a much better opinion of Maori than what they do of an Aborogine. I think Maori have generally succeeded quite well in Australia and one reason (I am sure there are others as well) I put this down to is they don't have to worry about all this historical baggage.
By not treating Maori as equals and somehow elevating their status or providing them with special rights causes resentement in society. I don't this helps anyone.
Let me pose an example, if you have 2 candidates for a job and all you knew about them was both of them had been awarded scholarships to study at university and one of them was Maori who was awarded a scholarship only for Maoris, do you think that you will feel (at least subconciously that) he got the scholarship because he is Maori and not on merit. I think then it causes people to devalue some Maori achievement in society as because people think it is not based on merit. The sooner this is rectified the better. I think Brash's policies (at first glance) seem to go towards achieving that more than what Labour is presently offering.
-Dinkas
P.S Apologies for the incoherent ramble, but I am in a rush
# posted by : 31 August 2005 at 18:02
: 31 August 2005 at 18:02
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