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Wednesday, April 06, 2005

Message to Rodney: Drop Dead 

That little fucker Hide has happily descended into the gutter in an attempt to bait the PM with references to lesbianism and childlessness. Drop dead. She doesn't pry into your life, and you shouldn't pry into hers. I know he was ostensibly quoting Smarmy Tosser Tamihere, and I'd expect that kind of sorry shit from a Prebble or a Franks, but thought Hide might be a bit better. Guess I was wrong. May electoral oblivion wipe your nasty little party from public memory.

Charming. You've just done wonders for the Christian Labour vote. I hope you've got lots more just like this. Suggest you let Jordan Carter proof read your next outburst.
Oh Dear Lefties are so illiberal when exposed They can dish it but cant take it Its called hypocracy and they make an art form of it
It's gutter politics regardless of who it comes from. Unnecessarily taunting Brash about his history of adultery would be similarly worthy of derision.

Tamihere's comments were fair play for the opposition to have a bit of fun, but Hide unnecessarily descended into personal insults.

Why getting pissed off at this would deter Christians from voting Labour beats me.
I think you are being a bit harsh on Rodney. I think he could have shortened the quote, but he was directly quoting Tamihere.

I must say what I understood Rodney to be saying by using the quote was that because Helen Clark's family life does not resemble the "typical" NZ family, how can she really know what families want? (I'm not saying I agree with this view, but it is a view that is certainly held by some ppl) Rodney appears to be interrupted by the PM and then Heather Roy finishes for him.

Although, on reading again what Rodney asked, the other interpretation I got from it was Rodney asking whether it was true or not that she had actually been attacked by people? This was in direct references to the PM's statements that JT said was drivel and not true. Now, I don't think this was a necessary question, but it is all part of the political game. Politics is not meant to be a nice game.

DC: What are your views on this then "Mr Hide was then attacked by Michael Cullen and Trevor Mallard who muttered that at least Miss Clark did not stick up for child molesters, referring to Mr Hide's friend Jim Peron."? Surely, this is just as bad.

Ok, I have seen your comment now. I am no fan of gutter politics, but it part of the political landscape. The only way for it to stop is for people not to pay attention to it and not let it affect their votes. I can't blame politicians for resorting to it while it affects votes.

Personal slanging matches and bollcoks are regualr features of some peoples political strategies but what does ACT or NZ First or National have to show for it years later?

Answer: The same fucken shit arse poll ratings.

Meanwhile Labour who naturally bear the brunt of most of it continue to enjoy amazingly high levels of support.

Go figure.

Maybe some people need to revise their strategies a bit.
Cheers Dinkas - some good points there. Absolutely just as bad to try and slander Hide over the Peron case (would be interesting to see the exact quotes though).

During the last US Federal elections, I recall a couple of Democractic candidates who were former lawyers being castigated for "defending sex offenders" ... as if that isn't an entirely appropriate professional role.

There may be more ambiguity in Hide's comments than I realized at first ... various interpretations are possible, although the "lesbian cabal" comment on the radio the night before provides some context.
Yamis: Polls for small parties this far out from an election will be a concern, but they still have plenty of time, and only need 5% or 1 electorate seat. Winston has been very adept in election year of finding some issue and running with it. He always manages to get back in. Winston's attack on Asians and their houses in Remuera only helped Winston at the ballot box a few years ago so I disagree that it hurts political parties. Winston is usually the best example that it helps rather than hurts, but this time around the mud has not stuck (at least yet) so yes it can go both ways.

ACT is a slightly different case as in the past they have at least one electorate seat in which they have had a good chance of winning. Without such a seat this year and unless they can take start to poll over 6%, many people who might vote for ACT might decide that they don't want to "waste" their vote and then vote for someone else. National have been inept the last 2 elections, but have started to turn things around the last 2 years so it is not too surprising they can draw away support from ACT.

Labour is just as adept at mudslinging. What about all the mud JT has been slinging around? I think it will only serve to increase JT's popularity.

DC: I doubt we will find an "exact quote" as it won't be in parlimentary records if they were "muttered". Of course, what they exactly said might not turn out to be what was reported, but I don't have anything refuting it at the moment.

I haven't heard any lesbian cabal remarks by Hide so that certainly does provide some context. Was this a direct quote/parapharsing from what Tamihere said though?

Rodney does not appear to have a history of attacking someone who is gay/lesbian - just look at the Person incident and his vote on the same sex marriage issue - so this is what has probably subconciously played a part in shaping my views.

I better get back to something productive as the cricket is over today.

Tis me, Yamis...

I think there is a key difference though in attacking an issue (in Winstons case it's fairly often immigrants) and attacking individuals. One gets you votes from rednecks and the other gets you laughs.

If you attack a parties policies or come out with some bold plans of your own then you are far more likely to gain votes big time than you are if you slag off one person in another party.

JT might gain popularity with some people but they won't be Labour voters so the Labour vote is unlikely to be affected. The people his comments will appeal to will more likely be people who support other parties and take glee in them so really where do we all end up?

I can't really recall anybody ever surging up the ratings because they busted somebody in parliament or took the piss out of them. It seems to me to be a waste of time and I'm not sure what the 'pointscoring' actually translates into other than making the 3rd formers I taught today look more mature than those occupying parliament.

As I said, I reckon it's doing the damage on another parties policies or coming up with some radical ones that appeal to the public that they should be focusing their energies on.

Poor old Winston will be noticing that immigration to NZ is way down this year so he can't beat that one to death. What's he gonna pull out?
C'est moi, wiremu1306 speaking. Late to the charge, sorry about that, missed some of the post-Tamihere revelations aftershock by being out of town, but here's a bob's worth.

DC-red, I do believe somebody back there called you a leftie. And there was me thinking you were really quite a well balanced chap.

Forget Rodney Hide. He's a bit player and a side show. Presented with a huge opportunity to indulge himself, how could a man with his pedigree refuse? And the others, Winston and Gerry and whoever else, are simply latecomers to somebody else's show.

I have just heard an audio clip of Barry Soper interviewing the PM. He asked her point blank, "for once and for all, are you a lesbian?" Leaving aside the propriety of treating our PM that way, which I personally think is quite insulting, the PM would have done herself a power of good by simply answering "no". She missed the opportunity with her "been happily married 23 and a half years".

I think you have to look at Tamihere's comments in a different way. There was a lot that wasn't very nice so that's the end of him in the Labour hierarchy (as the PM said to Soper, to be a Minister in a Labour Government you have to have the confidence of your colleagues...." BUT, there are issues that Tamihere did put his finger on, like the increasingly prominent part being played by the union movement, like the single issues groups he referred to (meaning a hard left women’s agenda), like the anti-men policies (I am not sure whether it is true myself, but even if it is only a perception its something Labour should deal to, and like the pervasive political correctness of the times. These are real issues, that the Opposition, if we had one, should be latching on to and influencing public opinion to see them as undesirable. Because they bloody-well are, and the fact that John Tamihere is in effect doing the Nat’s job for them is very sad to see.

These are the real issues, not who is smarmy, who is queer, who is a tosser, who may be a lesbian, who can hoodwink political novices in the minor parties with doctored legislation, and that the PM goes to pieces emotionally. We already know that. Except I don’t believe the last one.

Cheers, wiremu1306
G'day Wiremu1306, fancy work taking you out of the office at such a critical moment in NZ's political history (not).

I see a great deal of logic in your suggestion to "Forget Rodney Hide. He's a bit player and a side show." Soper is little better by the sounds of things ... why not ask Chris Carter if, once and for all, he is a tosser (still illegal in some US States, no?), and Steve Maharey if is is in fact, once and for all, smarmy. Why politicians put up with such shit questioning from our political press I know not ...

Try asking GWB this question: "Once and for all, George, did you do cocaine?"

Or try asking any world leader about their sexuality and preferences in the sack ... you'd never interview again, I'd wager.

I don't recall National MPs being questioned on the sexuality (or anyone other than the PM come to think of it), although we've all heard rumours over the years.

Don't care and don't want to know, really.
wiremu1306 again. A nice underscoring of what Tamihere drew attention to -

"I stand here as a proud southern woman, a feminist, a socialist and a trade unionist, committed to Labour principles and values, to Te Tiriti o Waitangi as a covenant between two peoples," she said.

Thank you very much, Ms. Soper.

Cheers, wiremu1306
Yamis: I can't think of anything Winston can pull out of his hat of trickets this year. Hopefully, nothing, but who knows with Winston.

"If you attack a parties policies or come out with some bold plans of your own then you are far more likely to gain votes big time than you are if you slag off one person in another party."

I agree with this statement, but personal attacks on the leader of a party will also help. While things are different in NZ than the US, a good part of the US election strategy from the Republicans was to attack Kerry's character. They repeatedly calling him a flip-flopper and attacked his war record. They had better success in attacking his Vietnam service because his campaign used it at the Democrat Convention, if they hadn't it would have been harder for the Republicans to raise it This was a direct attack on his character and polls showed as the election went on people started to have less trust in John Kerry.

I don't think calling anyone a tosser or swarmy will hurt their political careers too much, but the allegation that Helen Clark is a lesbian and the government is being run by a lesbin cabal could have a small impact*.

On a similiar vein this is related to the idea, as a I have said already, that in the eyes of some people Helen's family life does not fit the "average" NZ family and thus Helen doesn't know what the average NZ family wants and needs. The problem for Labour is that the opposition don't have to make up these statements all they have to do is repeat what JT said and ask is it true? Obviously, they can't go on repeating JT's statements forever as it could turn people off, but in the short term it probably won't harm.

I do take your point about policies winning more votes over and did agree with that. For National to really capitalise they need to come out with a range of policies aimed at "average" NZ families.

* Some segments of Maori, ethnic minorities, church goeers who might vote Labour might think less of Helen after this.

Wiremu: Excellent post

DC: I think the difference here is that it was a member of Helen's own party that made the statements initially. All Rodney and others have to do is to repeat those statements as part of a question.

I also don't care about a politican's sex life, but I have met people who do care - this is making me relive Christmas again with the relatives.

Helen can't ignore Barry Soper or the other major NZ political journalists (Espiner, Audrey Young etc). NZ is too small and it would make Helen look petty if she refused to talk to the political journalist for a long period of time.

Wiremu - where did your "proud Southern woman..." quote come from? Can't quite figure that out.

Dinkas - thanks for the posts, as mentioned before by myself and maybe W1306, journalists here tend to go for the attack dog approach to government politicians, which is simply not tolerated in Canada and the US. (The sycophants among some US media are another matter).

With regards to the average family, I suspect you're right, but then... see my new post.
DC: On Soper's speech, you can see it on Stuff


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